Subject: [css-d] Media="all" vs. @import

From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:50:53 -0400

Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Saila, Craig wrote:
>> For example, three-column layouts are almost useless on narrow-screen
>> devices
>=20
> A three column layout will render the same on a narrow screen
> device as it does on a 1600x1200 screen like mine, if the

Yes, if the handheld supported CSS-P, but even then, it would likely be
hard to read as most PDAs have a screen width of about 160 pixels. That
means about 53 pixels per column, or a lot of horizontal scrolling.

> Of course this is where Media Queries come in, not that they are
> widely support yet:=20
>=20
>    http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/

Exactly.

> Why? What about when we come along and invent a new media,
> say, "overhead-display"? About the only media types you are

Then you go back and update your style sheet. Nothing lasts forever.
Besides, until a media type is defined by a CSS specification we don't
have to worry about it!=20

> I don't really understand why.
>=20
> When the stylesheet is _specifically_ designed for a
> particular media (e.g. font sizes given in absolute units for
> printing), then it makes sense to specify the media type. But
> otherwise, it seems unwise.=20

I that's the heart of the matter there, and it's also where you and I
disagree. There are way to many situations when doing something great
for one medium (@page { size: ... }, pixel units) is not recommended for
others (@page is useless for continuous media, pixels can't be used with
tty).

@media was designed specifically for the purpose of declaring
media-specific rules in a style sheet targetting more than one media
(e.g., "all"). Why wouldn't you use it for that purpose? (OK, there's
poor support, but...)

> Since your "ideal" set includes "handheld", and almost all
> new devices fall into this category, you're not really avoiding the
> problem! :-)=20

I only recommended using handheld if the /only/ styles declared are
things like font and color. Handhelds have abysmal positioning support,
worse than WebTV (see below). If, however, you wanted to declare screen
and handheld together, @media is the perfect tool.=20

> Web of real CSS content to deal with. New devices are more
> likely to be better at CSS since they have to work with new
> Web content. And if the UA is compliant, then pages should

Yes, but they aren't compliant:
"CSS2 Support in PDA/Handheld Browsers"
<http://www.macedition.com/cb/resources/handheldbrowsercsssupport.html>

Thanks for making me think through all these media issues, Ian.

--=20
Cheers,

Craig Saila
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[email-masked] : http://www.saila.com/
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From: Josh at Ambrutis.com (Josh Ambrutis)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:43:50 -0400

> Saila, Craig :

And it's been a good conversation to follow along with, it's got me
thinking.
--Josh